Thursday, December 07, 2006

Rex and the Redskins

The Chicago media is questioning Lovie about Rex, and will be in a feeding frenzy around Rex and Lovie if Rex plays poorly this week. But so what? The Bears are 10-2. Lovie does not have to make any changes right now. This could end up being like when the Redskins won their second Super Bowl. In week 15 (I think), Gibbs made the switch from Jay Shroeder to Doug Williams and they won. We'll see what happens, but I am sure Lovie is considering his options carefully.

As for the Redskins, I was thinking about the huge numbers of empty seats and the largely nonsensical excuses that JKD and Deepie are pulling out. Here is the bottom line, the fans are so fed up with the Redskins that they are quitting on them. That does not mean that they cannot get back on the 'Skins bandwagon, but they have quit - including JKD and Deepie. Let me explain why (and it goes back to stuff I have been saying). Had the Redskins won, they would only be 1 game out with 4 to play. There are only 4 teams ahead of them, but they would hold the tiebreakers against Carolina and Atlanta, and they would have home games against Philly and the Giants. So basically, they had control of their own destiny.

I have heard JKD and Deepie say that this team was not going to turn it around and get on a streak because they are inconsistent - so are Atlanta, Carolina, Philly, and the Giants. All four of those other teams have their issues, yet you guys gave up on your team too early in my opinion.

Contrary to what you may now say JKD, your postings all point to the fact that you believed last week's game was meaningless - but clearly it was not especially when you consider the state of the NFC and its wild card race.

Have a nice day!

Day 1913!


deepie said...

I respectfully ask you to stop ignoring everything that I say and drawing your own conclusions regarding my commitment to my team. Please read my last post in the other discussion and you should understand my position.

Have a nice day!

J and K's D said...

Amen, brother!

Same goes for me.

Have a nice day!

Rob said...

I did read your post. You basically said that this team is incapable of making the playoffs because it has been inconsistent. For that reason, you justify the empty seats at FedEx. You believe that it is perfectly appropriate for fans not to come out and support the team because the team has been inconsistent. But, as I point out, the Eagles, Giants, Falcons, and Carolina are all inconsistent also. Except for the Falcons, maybe, the other three teams don't have problems with empty seats in their stadium.

Also, as I point out, the Redskins' were not just mathematically still in it - they had control of their own destiny.

Call it whatever the Hell you want. You can say you are being realistic, and that you support the team. Fine, maybe you haven't quit. But, your acceptance of defeat when the team still had control of its own destiny is a funny way of supporting your team.

Deepie, I know that JKD did not use the term "meaningless" but by his earlier comments he argued that the Redskins were out of the playoffs so that was the explanation for so many empty seats. To me, that is a clear indication that someone believes that a game is meaningless. Unless of course you want to argue that there is a different definition of the word "meaningless."

I won't call either of you quitters anymore because I don't want to hurt your feelings and fragile psyches. But, for me, it seems like you gave up way too early.

And, the fact that so many fans stayed away when last week's game was extremely MEANINGFUL - not just from a mathematical standpoint as you argue, Deepie - is a bad sign. It indicates to me that many fans have quit on their team (not you guys, of course, because you are just being "realists").

Have a nice day!

J and K's D said...

Rob, you are seriously f'd up, man.

Clearly, we cannot get through to you. You are WAY too hopped up on Rexy juice.

Rob said...

Let me ask you two questions JKD.

Did you believe that the Redskins were out of the playoff hunt before the Atlanta game?

How do you explain the large number of empty seats at FedEx during the Atlanta game?

PLEASE DO NOT WRITE A DISSERTATION. For the first question a yes or no will suffice. Just give me 1-3 sentences for the second question.

Rob said...

Deepie, the two questions above apply to you also.

deepie said...

I'll answer your questions as well.

1. I felt that we were still in it before the Falcons game. I was not confident that we'd win. See my picks from last week. I needed to see indications of consistency before I'd have that confidence.

2. Empty seats - Many fans are not willing to devote their entire day (travel, traffic, etc) to see a team that has fallen so far short of expectations. As I stated earlier, if it were the price (you argue that fans are being gouged by a greedy owner), then below face value tickets would be selling on ebay. It simply is because fans are disappointed in the team's performance.

Going back to the 'Skins playing a meaningful game or not issue. At 0-0 the Texans were still in it. Does that mean the Texans fans should have not been cautiously optimistic, should have just ignored how the team performed last year, and should have expected a playoff run? No way. The same holds true for me, JKD, and the rest of the 'Skins fans. Just because we didn't think the 'Skins could win out doesn't mean we've given up on them.

I'll let you respond to that before I get carried away and write a dissertation.

deepie said...

One more point regarding empty seats. 20,000 empty seats still leaves 72,000 fans in the stadium...more than the capacity of most NFL stadiums.

J and K's D said...

1. The 'Skins were not mathematically out of the playoff hunt but I said before that game, it is WAY too early to talk about playoffs. We need to have some consistent play before we talk playoffs. Before the ATL game, I did not think we were going to the playoffs.

2. I have said and agree with Deepie's answer. I have asked fellow Redskin fans/friends and they have said the same thing. They are still fans but before the ATL game did not think we were going to the playoffs. They would not go to the game but they would watch the game on tv.

This is what we are trying to tell you. We did not quit on the team. We still are fans. We will still watch the games. We will still support them. We are frustrated with the lack of consistency. We are disappointed with the results this year but we are still fans.

J and K's D said...

BTW, your comparison of Rexy and Jay Schroeder is wrong. Schroeder suffered a separated shoulder in the 1st game against the Philadelphia Eagles and was replaced by Doug Williams. Schroeder would return that season, but was continually nagged by the injury, allowing Williams to gain the starting position for the Redskins playoff run. Williams would lead the Redskins to a championship victory that year in Super Bowl XXII.

True Schroeder played a great deal that year but Williams had plenty of work during the year and proved that he was the better/more healthy performer; thus, was the better option as the team made its Super Bowl run.

Rob said...

I have read both of your responses. Basically, you both knew the Redskins were mathematically in it, but you believed that the Redskins were not going to make the playoffs.

I certainly agree that a lot of fans felt that way - but I also believe that a lot of fans gave up on the season too quickly.

Do you agree that if the Redskins won, they would be in the thick of the playoff race?

The fact that they are inconsistent is the same problem that the 4 teams that are currently 6-6 have. Actually, I want to correct one thing I said earlier. If the Redskins had won, there would only be three teams at 6-6. Atlanta would be 5-7 just like the Redskins and the Redskins would hold the tiebreaker. So, they would be in even better position that what I wrote earlier.

I am not saying that you are no longer fans. I am saying that you gave up on your team too early - as it appears many fans have done as seen by all of the empty seats at FedEx this past week.

I can honestly say had I been in your shoes, that I would have been sticking it your face that the Bears were going to come back and rattle off a bunch of wins in a row. I would have done so up until the bitter end if necessary. You can ask the wife - every year I talk up a storm about how UVA is going to crush Duke in basketball. I expect UVA to pull of the upset every year and until the game actually happens, I can talk as much as I like.

JKD, can attest to the fact that I never gave up on UVA football this year even though it was a down year. Even against Tech, I was saying we had a good chance of winning and making a bowl - in fact I expected it and was disappointed it didn't happen.

You guys are fans who lost faith in your team too early. Maybe you didn't quit, but you gave up too early in my opinion.

Rob said...

As for FedEx being so big - you cannot use that as an excuse. The Redskins used to have a 10-year waiting list for season tickets and the stadium size was appropriate. To argue now that 20,000 no shows is OK for any reason is rather weak.

As for Schroeder, I don't recall all of the details, but I do remember that Gibbsy had to make a tough call at the end of the year - he made the right one. I am comfortable with Lovie's decision-making and won't question him no matter what happens. He knows his team and is the guy in charge.

J and K's D said...

If we had beaten ATL and now seeing the results of the Panthers and Giants (both losing), sure I would have been more optimistic about the playoff chances. I'm sure you would have heard a lot more playoff talk this week ESPECIALLY with Philly a divisional rival AND a team we would need to beat to keep playoff hopes alive. I would be willing to bet that you would see a much more crowded house and a more energetic crowd. I SAID THIS MANY TIMES OVER.

Congratulations on your unrealistic views of UVA basketall and UVA football. What do you want a medal or something? That doesn't make you any more or less of a fan than Deepie and I.

Actually, now you are contradicting something you said before. In a conversation where we were discussing our predictions for games, I said that you will always vote for the Bears and rarely vote for the 'Skins. You said that is not true and you would be objective on the Bears but now you are implying that you would always bet on UVA basketball/football even though they have been down for a few years and have not been able to compete with the stronger teams. Explain.

If Deepie and I weren't such fans, our predictions would probably be better because we maybe would have gone against our beloved 'Skins more often.

Bottom line, you are strange, man. We are still fans but we recognize that we are not a good team right now. Again, I will still cheer for the 'Skins. I will still watch their games. They will probably frustrate me more but I am not going to give up on them.

Fine, you can say that when the Bears were putting up back to back 4-12 years that you predicted them to go to the Super Bowl and held that belief until they were mathematically out of it. Good for you! That doesn't make you any more of a fan. It just means you suck down WAY too much Rexy juice and need to cut down.

Good day, sir!

J and K's D said...

Schroeder started 9 or 10 games that year and Williams started around 6 games. Williams numbers were clearly stronger and he earned the right to be the starter as they made their Super Bowl run.

I have said all I needed to say on the Rexy situation. I'm sure Lovie is going to be paying close attention to Rexy this week. I'm sure he is going to be cautiously optimistic. I also believe that if Rexy has another poor performance, we will see Griese. I agree with the decision to start Rexy. I have also said that they should dumb down the playbook for Rexy and keep things safe for his sake. Run the ball, do short and safe passes, and allow the special teams/defense win the game. Every pass Rexy throws will be under a microscope and any mistake will be magnified. You don't want to rattle him. The last thing you want going into the playoffs is a shaky/shaken QB.

Rob said...

Actually, when you support a team unconditionally and even unrealistically - it does make you more of a fan.

When it comes to our picks for the weekend games - I am being objective. That is different from my support of a team. You have claimed for weeks that you are objective, but in your last post you are admitting that you cannot be objective and that your love of the Redskins biases you and your analysis.

See, your problem and the problem I see with Washington fans, is that even with the Redskins have a very legitimate shot at the playoffs, you no longer believed.

In the back-to-back 4-12 years, I expected the Bears to win and make the playoffs, right up until the time they were eliminated. That is the way I am (see my UVA support this year).

You appear to be fair weather fans who are easily discouraged even when there is more than just mathematical hope - there was real hope. Frankly, even now, if the Redskins win 4 in a row they have a very good chance of making the playoffs. But you have given up already.

J and K's D said...

I have admitted that my heart has led me to make certain picks when it comes to the 'Skins. I also have been objective in the areas that need to be addressed to improve this team.

I am not a fair weather fan. I don't turn my back on them. I am still a 'Skins fan. I have not given up on the 'Skins. I never have. However, I have been disappointed with their lack of consistency. I still cheer for them. If they had won last week (and I picked that they would), I would be much more optimistic about playoff chances. If they disappointed this year, I have hope for next year.

You are silly. So in 2004, when the Bears started out 1-5, you seriously thought they would make the playoffs? You are WAY in the minority if you did. If you seriously did, that doesn't make the other 99.5% of Bears supporters less of a fan in my opinion. I'm sure many of those fans still watched the games and supported their team and enjoyed watching the games to hopefully see some improvement or areas that would need to be addressed in the offseason but again, I am VERY confident when I say almost all the fans did not believe the Bears were playoff bound and that doesn't make them less of a fan.

Rob said...

I don't care about the majority of fans. You are less of a fan if you give up on your team too early. By definition, a fan that gives up on their team before they have been eliminated is less of a fan than one who does not.

If the Bears start off 1-5 next year or sometime in the future - it will happen sometime - you will still see me arguing for every scenario for getting into the playoffs.

Last year when the Bears started 1-3 and you were cutting down on Orton, I was supporting him and the Bears. I didn't lose faith, and I didn't make excuses.

deepie said...

Blind, unconditional faith in a team doesn't make someone a bigger fan than someone like me. A 'Skins loss ruins my day. At night I don't sleep as well. I wake up on Monday's thinking it would be a much more enjoyable day if I could go to work and gloat about my team. I want to paint a room in the basement of my new house burgundy and gold and sit on my Redskins couch and watch my team win or lose if I can...the wife would have a problem with my interior decorating though.

I think it's safe to say a lot of 'Skins fans are like me and JKD. JKD even polled people in his office to prove this point. The bottom line is, I expected the team to be a contender this year. That obviously isn't the case, but up until a few weeks ago, I was running playoff scenarios in my head because I had hope. The team has made adjustments where it can (QB, recommittment to the running game) and has made it clear that certain issues can't be fixed (d-line, LB, secondary, kicker). I know when my team is faced with a bad match up and can lose. If I think my team is going to lose two of their remaining games, I obviously don't think they can run the table and get into the playoffs. You are saying I'm less of a fan for thinking that way. Lets see what you think after you see me following a loss, curled up sitting in a corner of my house, stinking of Jack and Coke and vomit, rocking back and forth, singing Hail to the Redskins. Then tell me I'm not a fan.

deepie said...

The Bears at 1-3 with a dominating defense, good running game, and having just picked up a very good receiver in Mushin Muhammad were in a far different team than the 'Skins at 4-8, with a terrible defense and essentially a rookie QB. I can assure you that neither JKD nor I lost hope in the 'Skins last year at 5-6 despite losing the previous three weeks in a row. At that time, I honestly felt that considering the schedule they could run the table.

Rob said...

I didn't say that you are not a fan - I am saying that you are a fan that lost faith. That is true.

Fine, what is the problem now? They just need to string together 4 wins with only one team that has a winning record.

I am sure that you still are bothered by losses, but there are plenty of other fans who are bothered by losses. However, they still show up for the games, paint their faces, etc. And, unlike you and apparently the majority of Redskin fans they still believe (even now) that the Redskins can make the playoffs.

You cannot argue that you are a better fan or even just as good a fan as those types of fans.

Look, last year there were people who were really down on the Bears. I remember Kornheiser just bashing the Bears to no end. You can look back on JKD's (and probably your) comments. He would bash me constantly about Orton, but I didn't lose faith - not once that I can remember.

J and K's D said...

I am not going to argue on my allegiance to the 'Skins. I know how I feel. I agree with Deepie in how he feels on Mondays when the 'Skins win or lose. I too want my basement decorated in Redskin color/gear.

Rob, you can follow your teams blindly and believe that 1-7 they have hope to go to the Super Bowl or at 3-6 they could beat an Ohio State or that 4-10 they could be Duke's basketball team. That's fine and if you think following blindly makes you more of a fan that's fine too.

I am a fan but I will also realize what we are. That doesn't mean that I quit on the team. I will cheer and watch the games but I am looking for improvement and areas to build for next year.

You make fun of me for saying that we could/should be better next year and yet it sounds like you would do the same thing if it were the Bears. You are such a hypocrite. Shame on you. I pity you.

J and K's D said...

Rob, again, you are VERY much in the minority in your following your teams blindly.

Out of everyone I know, I honestly don't know anyone else that will follow a team SO blindly.

Rob said...

That is truly a joke. But, I am not going to waste any more time if you don't add anything new.

Good day sir!

J and K's D said...

I win! Yeah, you submit to my will. I have vanquished my Bear foe in a great and glorious victory!

deepie said...

And there was much rejoicing.

matar-alloo said...

Rob, if anyone has quit on their team too early, it is YOU!!!! You quit on the Redskins. And once Daniel Snyder buys the Chicago Bears, you'll quit on them too. Then where will you turn to? The Redskins won't welcome you back. You'll just have to learn to love the Oakland Raiders...pathetic.

Rob said...

Dude, if you want to give your hard earned money to Danny Boy that is fine with me. He has ruined a once-great organization and reduced it to the Oakland Raiders. In case you hadn't noticed, the Redskins are one of the worst teams in the NFL and they are only 2 games better than Oakland.

Thankfully, Snyder won't buy the Bears because he is too busy gouging Redskin fans to care.