Tuesday, September 08, 2009

Bears Secondary

Charles Tillman - the Bears best cornerback returned to practice yesterday. He missed all of training camp with a bad back and that kind of injury can be very problematic all year.

The secondary is the main source of concern that I have for the Bears this year. I hope Tillman is healthy enough to play on Sunday night. The Packers have a strong air attack and he is needed on the field, but if he is not healthy other guys need to step up.

Nathan Vasher needs to regain his mojo. I like Corey Graham and Zach Bowman, but they are not Pro Bowl caliber players as Vasher once was. There is also some concern at the nickel. Danieal Manning is the projected nickel, but he has been hurt with a hamstring injury for a couple of weeks. I think there are a lot of question marks right now and the guys who do play have not really played that much together the last few weeks.

The end result is that it is still unsettled, which is not comforting going into the season.


j, k, and s's d said...

Sounds like a bunch of stiffs.

When they start getting torched Sunday night Lovie will be running back and forth on the sidelines yelling, "HEY BaaBIIICCCHHHHH!!!! (much like Costello would yell for Abbott)"

Rob said...

Good one. Babich isn't the D Coordinator anymore. Lovie is responsible.

I think they have talent, but the problem is that I think it hasn't had a chance to gel with game experience.

That may very well be a problem this week against a very potent Packers attack.

j, k, and s's d said...

Vasher has lost it.

Tillman is solid but has chronic back issues.

Don't even know these other guys.

Good luck with all of that.

Rob said...

See you have an opinion about Vasher without actually knowing anything about him.

He has been hurt the last two years. Why do you have an opinion without "giving him a chance" or "seeing what he can do" on the field.

I don't really have a problem with you having your opinion - but this is why I cannot understand why you have a problem with my opinion about Kelly.

j, k, and s's d said...

There is a WHOLE lot more body of work on Vasher than there is on Malcolm Kelly. It is widely known that once he signed his contract, his play has seen a dramatic drop -- in large part because of injuries.

The one time Pro Bowler has fallen so hard that he isn't even going to be the starter. From the Sun Times, "Bears coach Lovie Smith all but confirmed Charles Tillman and Zack Bowman are his starting corners.

It's interesting because both have been injured throughout camp. Tillman (back surgery) is on target for Week 1 and Bowman (hamstring) is expected back soon. Smith said he was looking at the entire offseason, not just training camp. Corey Graham and Nathan Vasher are looking like the backups."

Injuries have taken a toll on the former fourth-round pick, who missed 20 games the last two seasons after signing a five-year extension worth up to $28 million.

From the Tribune, "Nathan Vasher: Can this former Pro Bowl selection recapture the special quality that made him a ball magnet his first few seasons in the league?"

He has not had a good camp and has even struggled this preseason. Nathan Vasher, the veteran leader of the group with Tillman out, had the hardest time of all. He got beat deep by Lee Evans on one play and allowed Evans to convert another first down on third-and-5.

Asked Monday about Vasher's performance, coach Lovie Smith said: "Not as well as he needs to play." His own coach notices his struggles and the result is losing his starting job.

David Haugh (I know your favorite) has a good article titled "Moment of Truth Coming Soon for Chicago Bears' Nathan Vasher." In it he talks about Vasher being often injured, struggling in camp, and not being the same guy he was back in '05 and '06 when he was the "Interceptor."

I just did a quick search and this is stuff written in his home papers. Still, anyone that watches a fair amount of football knows that Vasher has struggled with injuries and his play the last couple of years. The point is that there is a significant body of work to base an opinion on.

I conceded that Kelly has suffered more injuries than I had thought but there is not anything that suggests he lacks heart. In fact, the things I read are quite the opposite. His profile coming out of college was that he had size and decent speed and, contrary to your belief, had the courage to go in the middle and for jump balls. By all accounts, he has worked hard in the offseason and in camp and has earned the #2 spot. Again, there is SO much more material on Vasher to form the opinion that he is not the player he was than there is on Malcolm Kelly.

Due to injuries in the Bear secondary Vasher may end up winning his job back and proving that he can be the guy that he once was. However, the odds aren't great given that he lost his job in camp because of his poor play.

Rob said...

Why don't you just give him a chance? You haven't seen him play. He hasn't gotten a chance to prove himself. Why are you hating? I can ask you these very same questions if I really wanted to.

You say there is a body of work - he has been hurt. He hasn't played much the last two years.

Here is my point - I respect the fact that you can make an opinion based on what you read/hear about Vasher, but you don't seem to concede that I can have the very same reason to have my opinion of Kelly.

Ultimately, we'll see what happens on the field. But there is no reason to argue that I cannot/should not have my opinion.

Rob said...

Also, where did you see that Bowman was to start over Vasher? I haven't seen that. If Tillman is out I know Bowman is likely to get the nod.

j, k, and s's d said...

I never said that you couldn't have an opinion. I said that an opinion based on nothing doesn't mean much and I'm not sure how you arrive at that opinion.

When you claimed that it was your opinion that Kelly had no heart and had a fragile body, I asked you where was your proof. You said that you had none. Then later you said that you have watched him and this and that. However, the things you were pointing out were proving the exact opposite of your opinion of having no heart. Your own articles talked about him being physical and tough and not afraid to go after the ball.

The news from him during the offseason and preseason has all been positive.

It's fine to have an opinion. Personally, I think opinions should have some basis. Like I said, I can have the opinion that you go to bed with your thumb up your ass every night. I have no proof but it is just my opinion. I can have an opinion you love watching gay porn all day. I have not proof but it's just an opinion. To me, these opinions are kind of silly.

Still, it's your opinion and you are entitled to think things without any merit.

Regarding Vasher, sure he has been injured but it is widely known that his play in general has suffered. Again, Vasher has been healthy this camp and he has not performed and will most likely lose his job (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2826). In the link, it makes the claim of Vasher losing his job and cites the Sun Times for the reasoning.

It's clear he is not the same player he was. Anyone that knows football will say the same thing. I'm sure if we were in Chicago, there would be plenty of news on the drop off in Vasher's play.

The thing is the talk of Vasher in camp is the exact opposite of Kelly in camp. Vasher has gotten a lot of negative press and reviews from his coaches and peers while Kelly has gotten the exact opposite.

It's fine to have your opinion. I cannot make that more clear. I don't say that you shouldn't have an opinion. I only say that it should be based off of something.

You can say the Vasher and Kelly situations are the same. They are not.

We'll see what happens to both this season and can leave this argument at that.

Rob said...

I've explained why I believe what I do. It is not based on "nothing." That is absolutely ridiculous.

Your problem is you don't agree so instead of accepting my rationale, you just say I have no basis. Incorrect my friend.

j, k, and s's d said...

You were the one that said you had no proof. Than you changed your tune.

I still don't understand what/where your proof is that Kelly has no heart. Again, your own articles disprove that.

The comparison b/t Kelly and Vasher is ridiculous.

Fine to have your opinion. It doesn't seem to have much merit but you are free to have your opinion.

Rob said...

Thanks for letting me have my opinion.

I have no proof and I have never claimed that I have proof that he has no heart. My OPINION is based on watching his very limited play and what I have read about him at Oklahoma and all last year. You don't like that and you don't accept that as reasonable. Fine, I get it.

j, k, and s's d said...

I would still be curious what plays outside the one you cited and what you have read from OK that indicates he has no heart. You don't owe me anything and it's fine to have your opinion but again, the articles YOU referenced were in direct contradiction of your contention that he had no heart so it's hard to understand how/why you arrived to your opinion other than maybe you just don't like Malcolm Kelly or you don't like him because he is a Redskin.


Rob said...

You keep saying articles I referenced. I only recall one "article." The NFL pre-draft profile showed he had injuries and talked about his hand and willingness to go across the middle. There are plenty are articles that are out there that talk about the fact that he is a complainer who seemed to just make excuses pre-draft. That is largely why he dropped so far.

I doubt he will be the force you seem to think he is and the Redskins pray he is. But good for you/Redskins if he is.

j, k, and s's d said...

Fine, it was one article. It still was in direct contradiction of your claim that he has no heart.

I have already conceded multiple times that he has had more injuries than I originally thought.

I have said also on multiple occasions that I have never said that he is the second coming of Jerry Rice or a perennial Pro Bowl player. I do not know that yet. All I have said is that he seems to have worked hard and stayed healthy all offseason/camp/preseason and seems deserving of the #2 spot and now lets see what he is capable of. That's it!